"A thousand. A respectable number. And when you discovered it was for nothing, did you kill a thousand more or did you stop?" Erik asks with interest. Maybe he knows a little something about this sort of thing.
"Well, at that point, they were almost all dead," Gonou murmurs. "And the last man I killed near gutted me. I don't know if I'd have kept going if I hadn't been injured; I came here... not long afterwards."
"I did wonder how I ever would. But in the end... I think the question of atonement was getting in my way," he murmurs, turning his hands up in a tiny sketch of a shrug. "Because there's no fair payment that anyone can truly make for a life. And even now, I'm not sure I'd be willing to pay for some of the lives I took; I do think some of them deserved to die."
Others had been genuinely innocent of all but association -- or guilty of things that did not deserve death. But there's no meaningful atonement he can make for the lives that he regrets taking, no more than there is for the lives he doesn't regret.
"Rather than atonement, I needed to learn how to become someone with a better control of my... passions."
"I didn't expect it when it happened," Gonou says, with a slight tip of his head. "Some inmates do, it seems, some don't; and some think they're ready far before they graduate.
"But none of us go to the Admiral with proof to be graduated. It seems he makes those decisions on his own. It's likely safe to assume you're being observed on some level all the time."
His tone is slightly dry on that; he certainly doesn't appreciate the idea, but he can't see any other way that the Admiral would know.
"If you're looking for a practical guide... a considerable amount of meditation, yes. A commitment to addressing my feelings rather than dwelling on them in private. Friendship and trusted mentors."
"Probably. Most of my conversations happened with my warden and others here I care for - I never went to the counseling office myself. Kiryu is trustworthy, though."
He tilts his head slightly, considering Erik.
"But, again... what each of us needs will be individual. Necessarily. It's very annoying, but there's no one way to be better."
"That's convenient for you, though, isn't it? Wardens don't have to actually be any good at graduating inmates. If it doesn't work out, nobody blames you," Erik points out. "And you're not the ones trapped by it. It doesn't seem like there's much incentive at all to take Warden's duties seriously."
"Purely out of curiosity, but -- you haven't answered me yet about what you think brings you here," Gonou says, just as light. "Or were you hoping if you tried to make me defend myself, I'd forget? You're the one who needs to graduate to avoid being, as you note, trapped.
"I don't even have a deal. I'm just very competitive."
“Finally: something that bodes well for me.” Erik shrugs expansively and leans back in his chair. “My sins are numerous and varied. Murder, terrorism - if you take the side of the oppressive state I acted against - theft of government property… oh and one time I sent a video cassette back to the shop without rewinding it.”
"That is shocking. Imagine, the inconvenience to the next person who rents it."
Gonou casts Erik a dry glance, and settles down at last on the chair across from him, crossing his legs and folding his hands neatly on his uppermost knee.
"Why? -- Ah, the murder and terrorism, not the video cassette."
“That’s what most so-called ‘authorities’ object the most to,” he concedes. “But I’m not sorry for protecting my people from oppression and genocide. I’ve seen it before; I know what it looks like, the start of that. Not on my watch.”
"I don't have much room to complain on the matter of murder," Gonou points out, dryly. "But I don't think it's unreasonable to try to protect your people, either.
"It does lead to the question of 'what was the threat,' I suppose. And of just how much violence was necessary to protect them."
“The threat was the levers of the state turned on innocent men, women and children for the way they were born. How much violence do you reckon is necessary to deal with that?” Erik asks.
"I suppose that depends on what the state was doing." There's a faint, curious pinch between Gonou's eyebrows, considering; he adds after a moment, "I should tell you, I suppose, that I come from a world without much that might be considered a state. At least, not in my part of it. There are towns, and town councils or headsmen, but when it comes to levers of the state--"
A tiny shrug: he doesn't even unclasp his hands from his knee to execute it.
Erik considers that. "Imagine if all the bosses of all the towns and all the gangs got together and decided that they had the right to take your sister and anyone else's sister they wanted and before you had a chance to do anything about it - before you even knew about it - they came for you in your bed while you slept and locked you and all the other older brothers in the land in a prison and forced you to work digging up resources or building things for them while they did what they wanted with your sisters in their castles."
"I was looking for specifics about the threat you faced," Gonou murmurs. "Not necessarily for an analogy."
Certainly not for an analogy that manages to be both painful and patronizing at the same time, although, he supposes, he had left himself open for that.
"So what you're suggesting is you faced the threat of force used to imprison you and your people unjustly? Your - countrymen?"
"For future reference, when I ask for clarification, I'm asking for details. Analogies hide more than they reveal."
A pause, and, because he's still smarting from that particular choice of analogy, he adds pleasantly, "Even if you were to think of good ones."
But, that said, he takes a breath, focusing more thoughtfully on the situation Erik is describing.
"I don't think it's wrong to defend others," he says at last, slowly. "Even if it means you are the first to use violence. But the less direct the threat is, the more cautious you should be.
"It's too easy, otherwise, to say things like - oh - 'anyone who isn't also fighting is my enemy.'"
He should know. He's made that mistake himself, in a very hands-on way.
"I know who my enemies are," Erik tells him. "And I'm not sure 'future reference' is going to be all that... relevant. Aren't you only here for a month and then there's someone else?"
"I'm only assigned to you for a month. I doubt that means we'll never speak again." There's a dry note to that: they might not ever speak again, of course, but it is a small ship.
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 22 Jan 2023 18:20 (UTC)He's meeting Erik's gaze evenly; it's an effort to keep his voice from skewing challenging or defensive, but he's doing his best.
no subject
Date: 22 Jan 2023 18:45 (UTC)no subject
Date: 22 Jan 2023 18:51 (UTC)He shrugs. "So: that was my crime."
no subject
Date: 22 Jan 2023 19:01 (UTC)"And how did you atone for such a wide-ranging crime of passion?" he asks.
no subject
Date: 22 Jan 2023 19:21 (UTC)Others had been genuinely innocent of all but association -- or guilty of things that did not deserve death. But there's no meaningful atonement he can make for the lives that he regrets taking, no more than there is for the lives he doesn't regret.
"Rather than atonement, I needed to learn how to become someone with a better control of my... passions."
no subject
Date: 22 Jan 2023 19:23 (UTC)no subject
Date: 22 Jan 2023 19:33 (UTC)"But none of us go to the Admiral with proof to be graduated. It seems he makes those decisions on his own. It's likely safe to assume you're being observed on some level all the time."
His tone is slightly dry on that; he certainly doesn't appreciate the idea, but he can't see any other way that the Admiral would know.
no subject
Date: 22 Jan 2023 21:02 (UTC)no subject
Date: 22 Jan 2023 21:15 (UTC)He meets Erik's gaze, absolutely deadpan.
"And knitting. I haven't tried crochet."
no subject
Date: 23 Jan 2023 22:46 (UTC)no subject
Date: 23 Jan 2023 22:59 (UTC)He tilts his head slightly, considering Erik.
"But, again... what each of us needs will be individual. Necessarily. It's very annoying, but there's no one way to be better."
no subject
Date: 23 Jan 2023 23:02 (UTC)no subject
Date: 24 Jan 2023 00:51 (UTC)"I don't even have a deal. I'm just very competitive."
no subject
Date: 24 Jan 2023 03:05 (UTC)no subject
Date: 24 Jan 2023 03:28 (UTC)Gonou casts Erik a dry glance, and settles down at last on the chair across from him, crossing his legs and folding his hands neatly on his uppermost knee.
"Why? -- Ah, the murder and terrorism, not the video cassette."
no subject
Date: 24 Jan 2023 04:19 (UTC)“That’s what most so-called ‘authorities’ object the most to,” he concedes. “But I’m not sorry for protecting my people from oppression and genocide. I’ve seen it before; I know what it looks like, the start of that. Not on my watch.”
no subject
Date: 24 Jan 2023 04:36 (UTC)"It does lead to the question of 'what was the threat,' I suppose. And of just how much violence was necessary to protect them."
no subject
Date: 24 Jan 2023 04:42 (UTC)no subject
Date: 24 Jan 2023 05:02 (UTC)A tiny shrug: he doesn't even unclasp his hands from his knee to execute it.
"I don't have much context."
no subject
Date: 24 Jan 2023 19:02 (UTC)no subject
Date: 24 Jan 2023 22:19 (UTC)Certainly not for an analogy that manages to be both painful and patronizing at the same time, although, he supposes, he had left himself open for that.
"So what you're suggesting is you faced the threat of force used to imprison you and your people unjustly? Your - countrymen?"
no subject
Date: 7 Feb 2023 19:13 (UTC)At Gonou's summary, he nods. "I've seen it before. I know what it looks like when it's just getting started."
no subject
Date: 7 Feb 2023 19:32 (UTC)A pause, and, because he's still smarting from that particular choice of analogy, he adds pleasantly, "Even if you were to think of good ones."
But, that said, he takes a breath, focusing more thoughtfully on the situation Erik is describing.
"I don't think it's wrong to defend others," he says at last, slowly. "Even if it means you are the first to use violence. But the less direct the threat is, the more cautious you should be.
"It's too easy, otherwise, to say things like - oh - 'anyone who isn't also fighting is my enemy.'"
He should know. He's made that mistake himself, in a very hands-on way.
no subject
Date: 8 Feb 2023 20:21 (UTC)no subject
Date: 9 Feb 2023 01:02 (UTC)"Who are your enemies?"